The Proof Business

Speaker 1: Welcome to this edition of the Business of Marketing, recorded live here at Cannes Lions '26. I'm delighted to welcome, in this episode, Brendan McCarthy. He's the chief marketing communications officer of Seedtag. Brendan, welcome.

Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: So I think this is gonna be a kinda conversation about sort of, you know, ad tech and sort of building belief when the kinda category is noisy and technical and, um, yeah, I think you- you've kind of basically kind of sat in sort of reputation, measurement, product marketing, um, you know, and top-level brand roles. You know, you're arriving at kinda Seedtag, I guess, just as AI and contextual advertising are being sold, maybe changing everything. Let's find out.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Um, so I'm really looking forward to this kinda conversation. Um, so first of all, you know, let's- let's sort of get right into it. So focusing first of all on sort of ad tech, you know, and- and kind of, I suppose, why it's- it's got harder in some ways. You've, you've- you've- you've come, come into Seedtag after five years at Criteo, and before that, Nielsen. What feels kind of different about sort of marketing an ad tech company now than it did maybe kind of a few years ago?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Thanks for the question. That's a good one. The, um, I tend to, I tend to look at, in a little bit of a historic perspective, right? Because it's... I don't even know if it needs to be said, like, there's- there's so much hype around AI, but it's almost overwhelming. And so I'd, I'd like to sometimes take a step back and say, like, "All right. Well, when were times like this in the past?" And you sort of think of how the industry has gone through these over the years. There was the big data era. There was the cloud era. There was the big data and the cloud era. There was, um, addressable TV was a big advertising thing for a long time until, of course, it's very much a reality. And then, um, and then machine learning as sort of like the fuddy-duddy beginnings of this and the conversations in the, the late sort of 20-teens, I guess. And then now, like, the real prominent AI thing which, you know, three years ago, it was very hype cycle. Last year, it became real, and this year, it's not only just real, but it's also moved on to agentic. So it's, um, it's not only had, like, a lot of staying power more so than the other sort of, you know, next big things that have come along, but, um, it's something with a, like, real existential, you know, fretting that's going on around it because it really has not just growth and positive implications for the industry like those other, you know, trends did, but also potentially existential crisis being disintermediated from the ecosystem type of challenges, uh, that could potentially result, uh, from, you know, from the true promise of agentic AI being a reality. So it's, uh, it's- it's fascinating, and it's, there's so much to sort of, like, sort through to figure out, like, how to, how to, like, follow every day.

Speaker 1: I think what made me quite excited about this conversation coming in was the fact that I'm gonna be talking to a, a marketing leader about marketing-

Speaker 2: Sure

Speaker 1: ... um, an ad tech and a martech kind of business, right? So I think you've, you've kinda got the double-double thing going on here, you know-

Speaker 1: ... the, which, you know, you kind of set a really nice kinda context of kind of where we are today, kind of maybe from a kind of a market kind of perspective. But I'd love to kind of then sort of follow that up with more of a kind of a marketing question. Like, how, in, uh-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... on that basis, how do you then take that-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... product to market?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. So what, well, then, because it's so, because it's so pervasive and because of what the stakes are-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... both positive and negative for different players, it's a commoditized and a commodified story 'cause everybody has an AI story. And what's interesting about AI and the difference between all the other hype cycles in the past is that not everybody needed or wanted to have a big data story or an addressable TV story. Everyone has to have an AI story, right? So in that way, it's, it's completely flooded the zone of any kind of messaging that you're trying to deliver. So then going back to the marketing point of view of like, okay, like, if this is the dominant conversation and everybody has to talk about it, sink or swim, then how, you know, how then do I sort of draw a sort of differentiator out of it? And the good news I guess of, of, like, how to be a marketer in all this now is that th- the next sort of component of it is everybody recognizing, okay, if agentic AI is gonna completely collapse, you know, the funnel and it's gonna be conducted by agents, then the real thing that's left, which is important, is the data component. So once again, just like we were from the big data era, the cloud era, and everything else, it's really still truly the data that is the differentiator, and that's where marketers have to find the, the rich storytelling to be able to say, "Okay, if, uh, you know, if it's all gonna come down to the data and there's gonna be agents that are conducting transactions on our behalf and doing all these different errands on behalf of the ecosystem, then they're shuttling back and forth. It's fundamentally the data." And the data for each individual ecosystem player is gonna be what the differentiator is of how they make money, succeed, survive, and all the other good things. So from a storytelling perspective, you're like, great. It goes back to something that we all know that we do well at a company like at Seedtag where we have 10 years of contextual data that we've been doing, you know, 'cause we've been in AI for, for a long time, so we're well-equipped for the story, but we're also well-equipped to have a nice differentiating piece of data, uh, you know, data set that allows us to play a, a really important role in however, you know, the industry wants to transact moving forward.

Speaker 1: So, okay, so we've got, we've got data at the center. We've got data as being the kind of prime sort of differentiator, I suppose, in a sense. How are you then kind of, I suppose, in this new world then kind of taking the business to market?

Speaker 2: Well, that then comes... The, the key thing that I noticed whenever I joined is that, um, we don't do enough client storytelling. So you know, uh, when you come into a job, you're like, all right, like, the company's doing well Um, Seedtag is growing, it's exciting. Um, there's energy around it. The talent is there. Then how do you, how do you say, "Okay, they're doing a lot of things right, then what are the gaps, and where's, like, the low-hanging fruit where I can, you know, try to find some value?" One of the things that we all acknowledge at the company, so it wasn't like, you know, you know, like, "Why are we doing this?" But there, there are not enough opportunities where our, our clients are, are helping to tell the story, and there's plenty of happy clients out there to do that. So, and the thing is, is, like, that's really where it comes to life. That's w- how you take a, you know, what could just be somebody banging on about, "Oh, we've got this contextual data that's, you know, been AI-driven for years," and actually make it real is when you say a client said, "Well, actually, you were able to detect what the interest, emotion, and intent, you know, was from, you know, the people who were targeted with our ads. And therefore, you were able to do, you know, better than a standard o- standard contextual play." So that's where we get the clients to help to bring that to life. Um, and this week, you know, we're gonna come out, like, there will be a case study that we'll, that we'll issue around some work that Lenovo did with us that, where they basically did a bake-off between standard contextual and our, our methodology around neuro-contextual that shows, you know, superior results. But we'll, we'll talk about that a little bit later. But it's, um, you know, that's, that's essentially it, is that you have to show it in action. You have to bring it to life through, through real examples. And, um, I don't know. That's, that's, that's one of the few things that, that we have available to do soon.

Speaker 1: I think that is great because, you know, for me, you've, you've, you've kind of nailed the differentiation point, and sort of you, you know, you ... I think I love the, the kind of leaning into your clients and making it real through storytelling. That's fantastic. When you, when you sort of think about sort of, um, the, the, the, the team that you need to kind of have around you to kind of, kind of execute, kind of like how, how has that changed, and, and what does that look like today?

Speaker 2: The actual, the team-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... like the people?

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Ah. With, so, uh, first off, I, I love our team. I came in with, like, sort of a dream setup in terms of, like, the talent that we have. So, um, it's a smaller company. It's a smaller team, which I also really enjoy because i- at, at Criteo, you know, it's sometimes I had, I had gotten away from being able to do the work because you're there for five years, and then, you know, if you're doing your right job as a leader, then people are also, like, raising up, you know, within the organization as well. So as you go, you get further away, and you try to lean in more, and people say, "No, I got it." And you're like, "Okay, you do have it." But here, it's, it's an opportunity where, like, since we're a small company, we're nimble. Like, I get to do a lot of the work. I get to participate and, and, like, really get hands-on. So I feel like the joy of actually being, like, you know, a, a member of the team in a very, like, uh, horizontal kind of way. Or I, I don't know. It's lateral? Yeah. Um, along with a bunch of pe- people who really have each other's backs and, um, you know, and we all are, are kinda in it together. There's a ton of work to do, and so we're all just like, "All right. I'll do it. We'll do it, you know. I'll stuff tote bags. I'll do the, the work of, of marketing in every type of, of angle that I can." So I enjoy that quite a bit, um, just doing whatever I can 'cause it, it feels very startup-y in that regard. And, um, after working, you know, I, I worked at Edelman for a really long time, Nielsen, and then Criteo. These are big organizations-

Speaker 1: Mm

Speaker 2: ... with big teams, and you know, it, it's good to get back to a place where you are ... It's more tangible. You can really feel the difference that you're making as an individual, and then look out as the difference that you're all making as a team. That, it's special.

Speaker 1: And when you think about kind of, you know, how do you structure kind of-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... you know, a marketing team in 2026, kind of what does that look like, and how has that changed kind of in, you know, over time for you?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Good question. Um, I think about it ... Well, there are some fundamentals that you have to have. You have to have, uh, you know, a team that's looking after the brand. You have to have the team that's, you know, looking after the digital channels. You have to have a team that's focused on comms and kind of across every bit of the reputation. Um, so I, I wouldn't say there's anything that's wildly different. Um, but I'd say mainly the, the key thing is to have everybody have the same tools. And so in our case, you know, we use, you know, tools from LLMs. And so if we all have the same resources at our, at our fingertips, then, you know, that's, the amount of ... that we're able to do that speeds up the entire process is really, is, is significant. So we're, we have, we all have the same access. We all have the same sort of setup, but you know, it's a pretty traditional in terms of, of what we do. Like, so because AI, again, has become, like, a horizontal layer, and it, it depends on how you use it. You can use it for design. You can use it for writing. You know, you can use it for whatever you want. But, like, all these different disciplines across the team are all bringing it together and making sure that, you know, we're creating something original and interesting on top of that.

Speaker 1: And alongside Seedtag, which is obviously a given, what else is kind of in your, in your kind of, like, marketing stack?

Speaker 2: Um, sorry, I was eating some ice there. It is hot . Uh, in the marketing stack, uh, so we, uh, we, we dotted line with go-to-market, dotted line, uh, with product marketing. Again, and since it's a small company-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... um, we stay super close with, with the teams. Um, they're a very well-established, super talented group of individuals who run that in our strategy operation. Um, and, uh, and you know, it's, it's, it's, there's a lot of communication. There's a lot of camaraderie. Uh, you really feel like it's a, like it's a tight-knit group of people, so it's, it's nice. So, and then, you know, it's brand comms, social, digital. It's the, the full suite outside of, of product marketing where it's dotted line, and go-to-market, where we're just all in it together figuring out, okay, then how do we tell the story? How do we succeed?

Speaker 1: And let's unpack that a little bit more-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... 'cause it, it's really interesting. So you, you know, I, I'm getting a kind of a, a one-team kind of, kind of philosophy there around-

Speaker 2: Mm.

Speaker 1: But you know, that kind of holy trinity of kind of product and marketing and sales.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: So like, how do you, how do you kind of like that, that to run? How do you like that to work, you know?

Speaker 2: Yeah. It, it has to work together-

Speaker 1: Mm

Speaker 2: ... because no, like, the, the goal is, is that, uh, okay, how do we, how do we make our company bigger? How do we succeed as, as an organization? So there's no one that needs to be famous. There's no one that needs to, to, you know, um- Put themselves out in front of the next person. So it's actually one of our values is one team, one dream, and, and you wanna make sure that everybody is, is sort of living by that, realizing that we all have each other's backs, and we're all in it together. So, um, but in terms of, like, how it comes together between go-to-market, sales, and marketing, you know, everybody just ha- they realize, like, we're all dependent on each other in order to, to be a success. Sales isn't gonna be able to go out unless they have the right materials, the right pitch, the right positioning, and marketing's not gonna be able to do our work unless, like, we fed into that, and that we've had the collaborative relationship with sales to understand what they're trying to do, where, who they're trying to reach, and how we can sort of set up our programs that serve their interests the best as well. So it's, um, you know, it's gotta be collaborative.

Speaker 1: So let's go a bit more kind of into the weeds on, you know, I suppose the product, in a sense, right?

Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: And, and the market 'cause, you know, I think you set it up really nicely at the beginning there. Um, where, where, where are we kind of on the journey of kind of contextual and AI-led advertising, first of all?

Speaker 2: That's a very big question.

Speaker 1: How long have we got?

Speaker 2: I don't know. Um, where are we in, in the ter- Okay. So essentially, where we are now, and what Seedtag does well is that we are able to detect, through embeddings on the page and through inferences that we make through video, where people are through the content that, their content journey and the content that they're consuming, where they are emotionally, and then we're able to, in real time, serve them that ad that connects that moment instead of relying specifically o- on legacy identifiers. So for example, if you're using third-party cookies, you're targeting somebody based on a, anywhere from a 13-month at the longest end of the life cycle of a cookie, but more likely a six-month type of cy- cycle from a, a shopper journey, right? And so you don't know within that six-month cycle whether or not that individual has purchased those shoes or has purchased that, you know, suitcase or whatever that may be. That's still following them around the web. Um, I'm sure in many cases, I, I don't know if you have used the internet for shopping, but, but you know, I, I think we all have been in the situation where, like, you're like, "Yes, I bought that last week," and, or, or whatever. And so you want that to work better, and you kinda feel, uh, having worked at companies that do that kind of work, I always think, like, "Oh, man, come on," like, "you can stop showing me that ad now." Um, but that, but that's the departure. And that's the great thing about AI right now is that we're, we're, we're able to, to finally have a, a departure and a place. Because one of the things that cookies gave you was that they originally gave you the sort of broader sort of, um, uh, opportunity to, to address a big audience. But as the addressable opportunity has gotten smaller with third-party cookies, both through browser restrictions, through privacy concerns, and through people who are, you know, saying, you know, "Deny cookies" when they get to the page, you've really reduced the addressable audience in a, you know, in a substantial way. In some cases, it's down to 11%, but it's probably not that low. But still, like, it's substantially different. So then what you have with, with the combination of AI and contextual is that then you're able to have more scale, but where you really need to get better is around precision. And you got precision when you had third-party cookies because you know that that's an in-market shopper, but you're able to give that up for the fact that the in-market shopper may have already bought something within the past four months. I think that as we move forward with AI, you're gonna be able to get closer and closer to that sort of purchase decision at the bottom of the funnel, and that'll get better and better as the AI and the ability to, to produce audiences are more specific down the funnel. So I think that's the real opportunity as well moving forward with, with contextual AI. And then what it, what it does, you know, so in terms of, like, what we're talking about when we talk about neuro-contextual, is we're able to use embeddings on pages that create inferences, predictive inferences, f- knowing where that person is likely going to be based on math, right? And a high percentage of, of probability using, like, a correlation that they are going to be in that state of mind based on what they say, and then we're able to target them at a, in a very hyper pro- probability in a succ- in a suc- very successful way through the tests that we've conducted.

Speaker 1: And conveying that, you know, to kind of prospects, you know, um, you know-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... and, and, you know, kind of on, you know, kind of growing, kind of existing kind of accounts, like, what's the best, when you talked about sort of storytelling, bring, bring, uh, how, how do you kind of, what, what are the key objections you kind of gotta, gotta get over? What's the key kind of education you gotta kind of deliver to kind of really engage, you know, prospects and clients?

Speaker 2: I think prospects and clients are really open to and interested-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... because, again, the pervasiveness of the AI message, that they wanna know, then what is the differentiator?

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And so if we're able to show up and, and show them a demo, which we do, we have... So at the center of our stack is our AI that's called Liz. And then across, across the top of Liz is what we call, um, Neuro X, which is essentially something that helps to scale our AI, right? So our clients are, are able to see, because we've got great demos, and we actually have, like, a real actual working AI, where we can go in and show them in real time how we can create a media plan. And it's something that's, that's nerdy and fun that I like to do is I like to come up with a crazy campaign and say, like, "Okay, if I'm a middle-aged mom living in, you know, the, in Connecticut, and I've come up with a deodorant brand, and I want to, you know, and I wanna target, you know, s- like-minded moms," or something like that. You can type that in in a conversational way into chat, and it creates an incredibly detailed media plan, like, in a split second. And you're like, you know. So, you know, I have a lot of time at my desk-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... to ask dumb questions-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... like that to the, to the AI. But it's, in terms of, like, playing around with it to say, like, "All right, what campaign can I come up with?" And you're like, "Oh, okay. Wow," like, "you took me very seriously, and here's a very detailed campaign." So we're able to, to then show clients and say, "Okay," like, "here's your actual objectives."

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: You know, give me the prompt, and they prompt it right in, and then boom, like, it's, it's within seconds. So I, I think that that really opens their minds when they see that, that it's real, like-

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

Speaker 2: ... there's a media plan that can immediately be shipped out and executed. So, uh, that's- You know, that's, that's a big difference-maker for us.

Speaker 1: I love it because, you know, so much of kind of MarTech and AdTech is just sort of just noise and just full of just kind of jargon-

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah

Speaker 1: ... and just, you know, trying to kind of, sort of, you know, dissect, uh, you know, kind of decipher whatever that, you know, translate that into kind of... And you've used the phrase, I think we've used the, the, the word real quite a few times already in this kind of conversation. I, I kind of love the way that you're kind of cutting through that kind of that, that, you know, what, what I, what I perceive to be sort of what's wrong about how you go about storytelling in this world, you know?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Um, so really cool to like... I, and I love the kind of campaign point as well. So, you know, you're, you're in Cannes. You, you, you said that you've got a kind of, you know, a client kind of like sharing, you know, kind of like some of the kind of great results they've delivered. What other kind of, you know, kind of channels, you know, kind of tactics, you know, kind of are you, are you, a- and media are you kind of using to kind of go to market? What's, what's really working for you right now? What are you kind of excited about in terms of getting, getting to market?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, so I think our presence that we have at Cannes really rolls it up nicely.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Um, to kind of go across the outline, we're doing, you know, one-on-one client meetings, thought leadership. Um, uh, we, we have two very successful podcasts that we do that people, uh, that I, uh, was surprised to learn. I was like, "Oh, wow, we have..." But we have, like, some of the top-ranked podcasts in AdTech, which was a surprise. Um, so we're doing podcasting as well, and then a- also olfactory workshops. So truly, um, bringing the brand to life through very experiential ways that help people to say when we say, okay, that the new funnel needs to be interest, emotion, and intent, then how do we bring this to life through our activation? So if you then sort of like port all of that to how we do our marketing day-to-day, it's, you know, it's, it's many of the same ways. So we have a podcast to help bring the brand visibility, but also bring our partners on to help them share their messages. Um, we do, um, experiential workshops with our clients from all over the world. They'll come to Madrid, um, and they'll, they'll get regular downloads on the, on the product roadmap, so they're able to see firsthand what it is. But that's very much part of, of marketing as much as it is client so- solutions because they're, they're there not just to learn, like, what's gonna help their business, but they also get to understand our culture, learn about more about us, and get closer to us as a business. Um, and then, uh, the thought leadership that we pump out into the market as well, um, that we're... There's another opportunity that I saw whenever I joined that there's a lot that we can do more with our data. And so in a couple months, we're gonna have something very interesting that we're gonna be able to, to roll out that's, that's gonna be repeatable and interesting, that's really pulls together our value proposition.

Speaker 1: Watch this space, folks. I'm excited.

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I wanna talk about it again.

Speaker 1: I have to come on again, I think.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Um, so, um, that's really, really insightful, and I, I, I, I like, I like the direction you're heading. I think it's really interesting. And how important is it for you to be here in Cannes and at, in, in, and at, uh, kind of real-world kind of events?

Speaker 2: It's important for our company to be at Cannes because this is, you know, arguably, it's not hard to argue, the most important, you know, conference for the advertising industry that exists, which is funny 'cause it's all based on, you know, an awards show for creatives, but there's the entire massive part of it that's just about biz dev. So, um, it's important for us because we know that our clients and prospects are all going to be here, and it's important for us to be able to show up, you know, as a brand to give everybody, you know, a taste of, of what we do and in a way that they can really experience, um, you know, right there along with the rest of the advertising industry. So coming into Seedtag, a lot of the, a lot of the groundwork had already been laid for what our experience would look like, but it really just came to life really beautifully in the past couple months. And so we're having a, we're having a really nice time here, and it's going very well so far, so we're happy.

Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about sort of trust-

Speaker 2: Yeah, sure

Speaker 1: ... which is not something we've kind of covered yet.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: So I think, I think, you know, we've, we've talked about sort of the edges of that, privacy and things like that. You spent a lot of time kind of dealing with reputation, sort of public positioning and so forth. And, um, you know, kind of let's, let's... Give me kind of your view. Where is kind of trust, you know, kind of really won or lost these days?

Speaker 2: I think trust is really won and lost based on people doing what they say they're gonna do. So if you commit to doing something, you commit to a number, you commit to a delivery, you commit to changing your company, going from A to B, and you do that, and you show people, you tell people that we're gonna change, or you tell people we're gonna deliver it, and then you go back to that and you say, "Remember when we said we were gonna change? And we did," those are the little pieces that all build up and help to build trust, right? And so re- regardless of what your objective is, 'cause there's a multitude of different objectives there of whether or not your company is in a bad place and needs to be in a good place, or if you're, you know, just launching a product that's been long-awaited, or if you have something that new that is gonna help to change the industry, you know, it's, a lot of that comes down to communications, which is why I love my job as well 'cause it combines both market- both marketing communications together. But it, you know, in a way that has to be integrated, so through, you know, the executive comms, through, uh, product storytelling, and through, you know, again, like pulling through the marketing what exactly you did. Um, that's really, I think, the foundation of, of just being reliable, showing up for, showing up for your word and delivering on it.

Speaker 1: And outside of kind of that, which i- is commendable, what about from a kind of broader, I say, sort of industry kind of perspective? Like what, what, what kind of, you know, does Seedtag kind of think about sort of a- aligning itself to kind of best practice, standards-

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah

Speaker 1: ... frameworks, and regulations, right?

Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, yeah. Well, I mean, everything has to be transparent and verifiable. So it's, it's something that's a question I've been asking lately 'cause, you know, it's-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... two and a half months in. I'm still, still learning. So like, who are our measurement partners? And, you know, we use a whole dozen or so measurement partners. I was like, how do we make sure that, that everything that we're delivering and say we're gonna deliver for clients is verifiable? And that's in the, the case study I was telling you about with Lenovo recently. Of course, that was verified through measurement partners as well. So, um, measurement is a, is, first off, it, it- The funny thing about measurement, like things have changed and things that haven't changed, like measurement is still at the, at the top of the list, both at Nielsen, where-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... you know, the digital advertising was just starting to blow up-

Speaker 1: Right

Speaker 2: ... right? And it was getting more and more important, and advertising standards needed to change for that. Um, to Criteo, where retail and media measurement was a really core component of, of how we went to market as well. And then now at Seedtag, it's like one of those things that like, sure, like measurement can become more innovative and it can become more nimble. Um, but it's, it's still a foundational piece of, for being able to provide trust, transparency, and, um, you know, legitimacy to what you're, you're selling to clients.

Speaker 1: And, and what is, what is the market kind of... You know, I, I appreciate you're two and a half months in, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: But so, like, what, what, what's your kind of perception? And I, I love the, I love the Nielsen-Criteo kind of journey as well-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... because you, you, you were there, you were kind of going through kind of previous almost kind of paradigm shifts as you kind of outlined, right? What is... What, what do you see kind of the market needing to see, you know, kind of, um, to, to, to, to kind of really kind of confirm that, you know, the company is open, trusted, effective, and so-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... so forth?

Speaker 2: I, I think that the, just m- continuing to, to repeat it again and again-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... so more success. So if we're able to now, because I mentioned one of the first and most important things is getting our clients to speak on our behalf, and now that we have that, right, and we're gonna... But we need to repeat it and show that this is truly, like, an industry-grade, industry-standard type of, of technology that we've, we've brought to clients, that it works, it's repeatable, and it's not just through a test. Um, that, you know, it's industrial grade. Um, that's something that I think needs to continue again and again and again, so we're gonna continue to, to beat that horse. But at the same time, that's a horrible thing to say. Ride the horse? Yeah. It's rough. Um, sometimes there's turns of phrase that don't age well, right? Anyway, the, um... But again and again, like, like you need to continue to prove. And, and as innovation will continue to, to make measurement better and, and our AI will continue to, to grow as well as we, you know, as I, as I mentioned before, as you're able to, to get more precision through contextual and go all the way down through the funnel, um, the, the way that w- that we're having clients being able to show that and the way we're able to measure it and show up, that's just something we need to continue to do again and again.

Speaker 1: Want to ask you a little bit about sort of your role, which you just sort of, uh, you know, kind of mentioned there. Uh, the, that, what is the difference between marketing and communications?

Speaker 2: Um, you know, um, well... No, it... That's an interesting question 'cause I, I always like to have them integrated.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I don't like to think of... I'll tell you what my philosophy is.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I mean, because I think I could go into, like, one is earned and the other one is paid, but then oftentimes there's an earned one that doesn't work as well unless you pay to support it, right? So, like, that's, it gets super murky.

Speaker 1: It's an interesting question.

Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it used to-

Speaker 1: It's a great question

Speaker 2: ... it used to be a much-

Speaker 1: I wanna hear the answer-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... 'cause I think you got, you, you got it, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that, I guess that, that's essentially it, but the lines, the lines are, are, are definitely blurred. Uh, but a lot of times communications goes back to, like, reputation because you still, like-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... even, even if the, the pyramid of authority has fundamentally changed from where it was in the past, where, like you-

Speaker 1: 100%

Speaker 2: ... publish a byline in The Guardian, and, like, then you're able to prove your point and people are like, "Oh, then it must be real." You know, obviously that has fundamentally changed in the past 20 years, and the, the bylines and the being able to have your story, you know, published in, uh, uh, you know, in a, in a free independent news outlet where that you just get the build-up and the imprimatur of trust and reputation because you've had it published by a professional journalist, like, that no longer cuts it anymore, and, and fun- and, and people don't care as much anymore. So that's the funny thing that has, like, changed about comms is that and you're like, "Oh." So the communicator's, uh, tool set is also much more broad as a result of that, and you have to use influencers, use creators, work with, you know, press at the same time as well. And, you know, and in many ways reporters, journalists have all, you know, taken all those hats as well. So I view that that's kind of like the state of communications to me.

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: But it doesn't work unless it's, like, fundamentally connected and, and integrated with marketing. Because on the one hand, if you're just trying to say, "My objective is solely a communications objective," that's not real. So you have to say, "What are we fundamentally trying to achieve as a company?" And then how do we choose the channels to go to market, communicate in order to best achieve that end, and then start from there and say, agnostic of all those channels, how do we win?

Speaker 1: I think it's a, it's a great answer, and, you know, I'm, I'm biased on this one 'cause, you know, I think, I think your, your, your sort of point around kind of comms and where it was and, and, and where it is now and where it's going, for me, is, is really exciting, to be honest. And the idea that you've brought that role into, or that title into your role, I think, uh, you know, I think, you know, in a kind of, um, AO world or what have you, I kind of call it world-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... right? You know, kind of, I think, I think communications is, is, is, is obviously massively changed, you know, and changing, but I think its role is, you know, and the link between kind of reputation and comms and growth is, is actually becoming, um, stronger and deeper.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I just wondered, I wondered if that was the reason why you sort of saw that as, as the title and, you know, that, that ability to kind of bring those two things, you know, together in a more joined-up approach.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's funny 'cause people, of course, give me guff about the fact that I have a long title. But I, I think it's important and, and robust. There was also a, a, a brief trend where people questioned, you know, d- is, is the CMO title itself reflective of, you know, of, of the full work that the CMO does? Is that, you know, it, is it more of a chief growth officer? Is it marketing and growth? You know, what does that really look like? Or is it, and, and, or is it just marketing communications which supports growth? So perhaps I got a little, you know, caught up in the, in the buzz around, around that, but I was like, well, at least it fully represents, like, the power of, of, like- ... what we can all do as a team, in that it doesn't make my very important communications team feel as though they're part of a marketing organization or vice versa. So it, it kind of brings everyone together to say like, "Well, you know, if you bring all this to bear, then, then we win." So it's, it's a little bit of that.

Speaker 1: Quickly just talk about the global test, I suppose.

Speaker 2: Sure.

Speaker 1: Um, you've worked across the US, Europe, India. What changes kind of, you know, do you s- see when you're trying to tell, you know, a single company story across very different markets?

Speaker 2: I mean, everything, you know. It's, it all goes down to localization. So y- you have to pick and choose where you launch, what stories to tell, how you tell them, um, based on locality. And even if you're trying to, you know, shift your global brand in a, in some kind of way, you know, you still have to defer to, to what the local market is going to say in response to it. So you have to be, uh, always deferential and respectful of local holders, local understanding of what your message is. 'Cause, you know, like when the... We talked a lot about commerce at, at Criteo, and it's a key category, and commerce media is a category that we helped to create. I'm gonna pause for-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... one second.

Speaker 1: Sure.

Speaker 2: There's a lot of coffee cups to be stacked, turns out.

Speaker 1: And, and by all means, um, if you wanna bring India into the mix as well-

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah

Speaker 1: ... um, that would be-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... kinda interesting.

Speaker 2: Definitely will, yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. How we doing? What percentage-

Speaker 2: We're done

Speaker 1: ... are we on the download?

Speaker 2: Yeah. We're good.

Speaker 1: Escaping.

Speaker 2: We're good.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Fantastic.

Speaker 2: So at Criteo, where we helped to develop the commerce media category, the word commerce is a, is an amorphous and odd word in Japan. Japan is a key market for Criteo, so the way we, we lo- we looked at how we talked about commerce in that market, you know, we had to be... You have to be flexible, as you can't just start pounding people with words that don't mean the thing that you want it to mean in a local context. Um, you know, and, and I'll go also compare it to the work that we did when, um, when I worked at Edelman in India, where we, we helped to support the market entry for Starbucks in the country. And, you know, Starbucks, you know, a- an amazing, you know, global brand. India already, uh, was wary of multinational corporations, so just fundamentally, understandably so. Um, and they have different policies in place that I don't know, you know, where they stand now, um, that essentially required joint ventures to ensure that you're gonna go to market with a partner that's gonna benefit the country in addition to, uh, benefiting the company. But, you know, it, uh, when Starbucks, you know, traditionally a coffee company, comes into a country that's traditionally, you know, known as being a, a tea country, you know, you have to make sure that your offerings all sort of were, were, you know, representative of what that country actually prefers. There are many indigenous brands that were coffee companies as well, but, you know, it's certainly part of the nuance that you have to take into account. And, um, I think Starbucks has been wildly successful, you know, in the subsequent 15 years or whatever that has gone by. But, um, it's because they, they did it really well in terms of how are, how they entered the market, how they approached it, how they thought about who the customers are, and were respectful of that as they, as they, as they, you know, grew.

Speaker 1: You're two and a half months in.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Um, we're sitting down again, Cannes 27. What are we gonna be talking about?

Speaker 2: Oh, that's a fun question, isn't it? Well, it, it's, um... Because this is the first time that Seedtag has done a built environment, I, I think that they, they might have had like a, a loft space or something like that. There's a lot of, like... Even though things are going really well, there's a lot that we can learn, and we have a, already have a running document from day one of like, you know, how to make it better next year. And, um, I think regardless of if it was three years ago or five years from now, we would still have that to try to improve the next thing. Um, who knows? I can't even begin to predict what the message is, but if it's on the same trajectory, like from the, from the industry, I think agentic will have taken a step forward. Um, data, again, will be the key differentiator. Um, I think Seedtag will continue to grow, uh, in a, in a, you know, in a way. I'm excited about our brand. I think that we've come on pretty strongly. Even, you know, before I joined they were, they just like ha- put a lot into it. And, um, through the leadership that they were able to, to land with Brian Gleason, the CEO, um, very well-liked and respected across the industry. I think that he really helped a lot build on, on the really impressive, um, uh, foundation that the founders had, had laid. Um, but who knows what we're gonna talk about a year from now? I, I mean, it's, it's, I, I'm sure it's gonna be something different, but, uh, hopefully we'll, we'll pivot away from being just so, you know, pearl clutching and out of breath about AI.

Speaker 1: Brendan, it's been a real pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much for your time and for joining Business Marketing.

Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.